You are very welcome here. The fact that we may disagree does not change that. My heart sank when I read this comment, because this is not my intention at all. Disagreements can often get out of hand, and I’m sorry that this debate has taken such a turn that you feel that there is no place in the family of God for you. The wonderful, life-changing truth of God is that there IS a place for you in His family. I would love to continue this conversation with you, perhaps e-mail would be better. I would welcome the opportunity to discuss with you further about where I’m coming from. There is so much that I havn’t said on this and other related subjects that I think would clarify a few points for you. Please please please do not think that your input is not welcome, I have enjoyed your part in the discussion so much and you have expressed yourself with grace and clarity. If you’d like to take this discussion off the blog, you can reach me at bonnie_alicia@yahoo.com

Bonnie

Anyway, I appreciate your response Amanda, very much.

“bottlecappie: I understand what you are saying about how what Bonnie is encountering is not “true feminism”, however, she is writing about her experience. So whether or not that really ought to be called feminism is a moot point. The point is that she regularly encounters people who have been influenced by ideas that call themselves feminist (whether a misnomer or not) who believe that being a homemaker is beneath her.”

Bonnie had said in the previous post that people she respected were the ones that looked down on her for wanting to teach preschool 2 days a week and be at SAHM for the others. Do these people call themselves feminists? if so, then Drew is right, this “argument” about if we should call it one thing or another could be a bit pointless.
HOWEVER, if this “feminist view” is what Bonnie attached to these ideas because that’s what SHE thinks explains the perspective, then it is certainly not a moot point for someone to come in and say “No, that’s not typical feminism.” or “Don’t think all feminists are that way.”

And Brian..are these “separate roles” only pertaining to who stays home and who works? bottlecappie is right..one minute we read Bonnie saying it’s not for everyone, then we read you saying that this is what God meant. And who on this blog “buys into the idea” that the only difference between man and woman is “between their legs?” as you put it. It seems like you’re just being a bit rude..

bottlecappie, you have responded to all of these comments and posts with great respect for others and their thoughts. you are as welcome here as anyone else!

I think THIS is what Anson was talking about (in his Ansonie way we all know and love) with blogs not always being the best communicator. Unless you meant for bottlecappie to feel unwelcome, I think it just solidifies the fact that online communication isn’t always on-target with the non-verbal indicators.

“bottlecappie: I understand what you are saying about how what Bonnie is encountering is not “true feminism”, however, she is writing about her experience. So whether or not that really ought to be called feminism is a moot point. The point is that she regularly encounters people who have been influenced by ideas that call themselves feminist (whether a misnomer or not) who believe that being a homemaker is beneath her.”

I guess I’m having a hard time expressing myself, because that wasn’t my point at all. What I was trying to say is that there is no “true feminism.” There are many flavors of feminism, and some are supportive of SAHM’s.

I wasn’t trying to discount anyone’s experience, and I apologize if I came off that way. I was only trying to let y’all know that some branches of feminism are supportive of a woman’s choice not to work outside her home.

Now, I’m a little confused as to whether or not my input is welcome or appreciated here. Brian seems to be reframing the discussion in terms of whether God created women to stay at home and raise the babies, which would mean that staying home and mothering would be the only correct choice for all women…rather than a choice that’s made on an individual level.

Am I getting this right?

So, if I am welcome in this discussion, I’d really like to understand where you are coming from. If not, just let me know and you’ll never see me again.

Either god made men and women with seperate roles and abilities or he didn’t. I for one don’t buy into the idea that the only difference between a man and a woman is between their legs. God either made them male and female or he didn’t. And if he did, the question we are raising is what implications does that have in our lives and relationships? I’m sorry if standing for something upsets you, but this isn’t a matter of preference.

Brian

anson

Bonnie and I are working from a worldview which claims that God created male and female. He created them with different strengths, weaknesses, talents, and most importantly roles.

I will attempt to highlight these differences in a post. Obviously my understanding of my worldview is stronger than my understanding of an opposing view. Therefore, I would appreciate any comments or criticism in my approach to this subject.

Brian

bottlecappie: I understand what you are saying about how what Bonnie is encountering is not “true feminism”, however, she is writing about her experience. So whether or not that really ought to be called feminism is a moot point. The point is that she regularly encounters people who have been influenced by ideas that call themselves feminist (whether a misnomer or not) who believe that being a homemaker is beneath her.

anson: the idea of a blog is that you can write down your ideas and get feedback from people who are willing to read those ideas. Sometimes that means you change your mind from your original thoughts after processing the feedback, and sometimes you find that your original ideas become more solidified. It’s kind of like the digital form of thinking aloud. I would suggest that while you think that blogging is stupid or bad or wrong or whatever descriptor you would like to use, you may not be right. If you don’t like blogs don’t read them. And certainly don’t use an online communication form to tell people not to use that online communication form. It comes off as rather strange.

I’m not going to argue that no feminist has ever made that assertion, because I’d be wrong. I have had to duke it out with other feminists in fact about this very issue. But I just can’t go away without letting you know that there are committed feminists who care very deeply about the work of mothering and about the fact that it is undervalued in our culture. We also care about the fact that SAHM’s are put in an incredibly vulnerable position because their work is unpaid.

And going back even further than feminism…it was not feminists who slotted childcare, housework, and basically all the caring professions into the category of “women’s work” and then systematically devalued that work because it belongs to women. I mean, there is a lot of lip-service paid to the idea that mothering is the “most important job on earth” but it’s also unpaid work, you know?

So the feminist mother’s movement is advocating for things like paid maternity (and paternity) leave, universal healthcare, universal childcare, tax credits for stay at home parents, social-security credits for sahp’s, and more flexible work policies for parent’s who have to (or just want to) work outside the home.

And, just as a parting thought, I disagree with Anson up there. I think it’s great that you are putting time and effort into sorting out your thoughts around this issue. These are big life decisions, and while you really can’t know in advance how you will react to life at home full-time with children, it’s good to really think about these things rather than just blindly deciding. And it’s good to think about the reactions of friends and families, even if it’s just to come to the conclusion that they’re wrong. Writing about your thoughts has opened up a dialogue where there wasn’t one before, and that is good.